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Author Topic: Cataclysm thoughts  (Read 1344 times)
Jaxartes
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« on: April 26, 2010, 08:53:23 AM »

So I'm wondering...Is it time to put in a Cataclysm forum?

There have been a lot of Cataclysm releases in the past weeks.  New class details, new mechancis details, zone information...lots of stuff.  I find the idea of the underwater city potentially intriguing, though my tailor is inwardly cringing because naga never carry cloth.  The phased starting zones for Worgen and Goblins sound really interesting to me, all the more so since they are --starting zones--, and not some high-level thing.

Blizzard has said that their numbers indicate that they only keep 30% of new players ppast level 10.  As a result, expect to see a lot more focus on leveling quality in Cataclysm.  Leveling quests throughout the old world are supposedly being heavily re-written, even in areas relatively untouched by the upheaval.  Storylines are being updated and diversified to make for a better leveling experience.

So far as raiding goes, I think they finally got it pretty much right for the LK patch.  The dungeon finder is a great way to gear up and practice toons while playing with a group of others.  The bossfights in ICC feel more "old school" to me than Naxx or Ulduar did.  The heroic modes feel eveolutionary to the original fight, and not like a bunch of weird bolt-ons have been added, like many of the Ulduar hardways.

So now, for Cata, I'm feeling kind of optimistic.  The old world will be amost a whole new place.  What's old will be new.  Only 5 levels to grind, and new guild-enhancing achievements.  Nifty.

Anyone else given it any thought?
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Jaxartes
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« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2010, 10:53:00 AM »

Also, this just in...

Blizz has decided in cata to combine the lockouts for 25 and 10-man instances.  The loot will be the same in either size, and difficulty will be roughly the same.  so if you were to do the cata equivalent of ICC 10 one week and wanted to do 25-man, you'd need to do it on another toon.

Dual mains, anyone?
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Jaxartes
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« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2010, 01:05:02 PM »

Wow, no thoughts on the 10/25 shared lockout?
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Ogun
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« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2010, 07:19:36 PM »

Well, I like the gear being the same.  I frankly prefer 10 mans, because I feel more personally involved...
I actually don't mind the shared lockout... as a 'casual raider', two nights a week is about what I want do anyways.
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Jaxartes
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« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2010, 07:35:05 AM »

It's funny, but I didn't really give much thought to it until now myself.  I just always went with the "big" raid, because it was always what I did.  But now I think back and raids like ZG and Kara were actually a lot more fun.  There were fewer people so it was more relaxed and "chatty."  That appeals to my social side.  It didn't really hit me that 25's are actually much quieter until recently.

There is a downside to 10-man raiding, though.  The smaller a raid gets, the more important each individual becomes.  Things are less a case of trying to find enough raiders and more a case of deciding just who isn't going to make the cut.  It's a more brutal success mechanic, unless the guild can run 2 at a time, like we did with Kara.

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Eleth
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« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2010, 07:38:40 AM »

Indeed. This change is definitely one which i hope that they will re-consider before the launch. Personally I cannot see any good reason for this change and I am firmly in the camp who believe that this is a bad thing, for so many reasons.

Eleth
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koshe
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« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2010, 08:47:05 AM »

Indeed. This change is definitely one which i hope that they will re-consider before the launch. Personally I cannot see any good reason for this change and I am firmly in the camp who believe that this is a bad thing, for so many reasons.

Eleth

the reason for the change is to make raids and gear open to more people that for normal will not raid. there is some trouble that will follow the change but some good too. the trouble is very good chance it will kill 25s. many not gonna bother with the headache to staff and lead 25s. some will see no reason to do 25 and deal with the loot council person they do not like or save dkp to beat 8 people or even to win the random /roll v 8 people when 10 drop all the same stuff and it is more easy to staff the role/class set up to get the item they want. too there gonna be leach effect same like when wotlk launch and people hurry to make 10 man guilds. 25 man guilds gonna lose alot of people to the leach effect.
the good part is people that do not raid normal gonna have more chance to do it. and there gonna be more raids to do. at launch the goal is to open 3-4 raids of the same teir. like ssc/tk/mag  kara and gruul hyjal/bt but with no attunement. for most of wotlk i did 10 and 25 every week for 2 characters and some times 4 characters. and it did burn me out (ima only keep the mage here and priest on stormrage for cata). so 3-4 raids in different zones maybe not burn out so fast. i do not mind the change. but some thing to watch for is it gonna be alot of stress and angry people on the way there.
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Eleth
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« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2010, 09:54:29 AM »

True, I have seen that reason. I discounted it because I dont understand how making the two on a merged lockout helps with this. I can understand them increasing the 10 man loot if they want to promote that, but why put them on a combined lockout? If you just updated the 10 man loot then ppl would run both (as they do now).I also saw the unstated reason which you mention (that it will slow down peoples acquisition of gear), but Blizzard havent stated that as a reason (although like you i personally believe that it may be some of the motivation.

Eleth
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Jaxartes
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« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2010, 11:08:52 AM »

It really looks like an overreaction to me.  The 251 vs. 264 loot is not THAT different.  People who don't raid 25-man LK today really don't need the 264 loot for anything else.  That loot is there to deal with the threats that are designed to require that loot to overcome.  It's not like anything outside a raid instance doesn't melt the second you hit it with your ilevel 251 purple-dripping DPS toon, or that healing will be a challenge to raid-geared healers in 5-mans.

My fear here is that Blizzard may be aiming a gun at their foot.  If they are going to give the same loot and have the same difficulty level on 10-man runs as with 25 there is still, I think, a very real danger that more casual guilds will not be able to successfully complete those runs.  If Blizz nerfs the runs and just hands out big loots to everyone then the less casual (not even hardcore) players will grow bored of the lack of challenge and drift off.
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koshe
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« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2010, 02:10:05 PM »

It really looks like an overreaction to me.  The 251 vs. 264 loot is not THAT different.  People who don't raid 25-man LK today really don't need the 264 loot for anything else.  That loot is there to deal with the threats that are designed to require that loot to overcome.  It's not like anything outside a raid instance doesn't melt the second you hit it with your ilevel 251 purple-dripping DPS toon, or that healing will be a challenge to raid-geared healers in 5-mans.

My fear here is that Blizzard may be aiming a gun at their foot.  If they are going to give the same loot and have the same difficulty level on 10-man runs as with 25 there is still, I think, a very real danger that more casual guilds will not be able to successfully complete those runs.  If Blizz nerfs the runs and just hands out big loots to everyone then the less casual (not even hardcore) players will grow bored of the lack of challenge and drift off.

it remove the penalty for run 10s only but they say they gonna tune 10/25 to be the same challenge. the carrot to run 25s is each boss will drop more badges/gold/items. not better quality stuff. just more of it. the trouble gonna be find 25 people that have the skill to run the dungeon AND want to use the lock out that way. it is why i think it is very real chance it will kill 25s. right now the carrot for 25s is ilvl 264 v 251. when 10 and 25 is equal and you can pick only 1 i think people gonna follow the path of water not the path of the hammer. what casual guilds will complete is 10s. but that gonna put high demand for tanks healers. dps will be first loss to leach effect because any guild can support only so much dps from the tank/healer pool. so they gonna float to where they can find raid space prolly in 1 million new 10 man guilds. 'hard core' guilds will stay or break base on what hold together the guild already. if it is close core of friends prolly will not have much trouble. if it is 'achievement factory' guild prolly will break. every guild in between that standards will stay or break mostly on how much tanks and healers they can keep. blizzard say if they do not like how raids work in 4.0 then they can change it in 4.1 but they say also right now they tune the dungeons to match the equal level 10/25 idea so really i do not think they gonna back off the idea. that will cost alot of developer expense and no company want to invest more cost to the product with out some return they can see.
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Jaxartes
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« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2010, 07:16:08 AM »

Heh,

"People are like water.  They follow the path of least resistance.  That's why you have crooked rivers and crooked men."
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