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Author Topic: Honor Among Thieves rogue talent  (Read 1662 times)
Lauriel
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Posts: 95


« on: February 03, 2009, 09:22:15 AM »

Heya guys,

I can't wait until we can do the two sets of talents because I'm using a pvp/pve hybrid that is average at both, but will never be great at either.  Any idea when the two talent build tweak is coming out?

Either way, my raid dps is based mostly on my Honor Among Thieves build.  For those that don't know, if a group member crits on anything, the rogue gets a combo point.  In fights with boosted crit ratings (e.g. Loetheb) my dps can be pretty impressive (5k+).   On the other hand, if I am in a low crit group, my combo generation is much slower and the dps goes way down.  I find it very interesting how group make-up can impact your individual class performance, but that's another discussion for another day.

In short, I'm asking a favor, when making up the raid groups would you please consider critability of a group as an additional factor in determining the placement of Lauriel?  If its a problem, no biggie, but Leader of the Pack and Boomkin aura and other things that boost crits can jack the dps pretty impressively.  As we are short on rogues and this build is rather new, I thought I should mention it.  Again, no big deal, but I felt I should point it out to help increase my contribution.

Thanks!

Lauriel
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Sicro
Why me?
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« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2009, 09:57:58 AM »

Thanks Lauriel - that is great information for the raid leaders to take into account.  Especially since most abilities we used to have to specifically make groups for (i.e., paladin auras, totems, druid abilities) are now raid wide and not only party wide, we still need to remember and jot down those that are party specific.  Abilities such as this are very important - similarly passing out the draeni to different groups to give 1% hit to each group is another thing we need to keep aware of.
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So...Are these rules or guidelines?
Ahpre (aka Ahmaj)
I <3 Garden Gnomes
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Posts: 313


I'm dancin' as fast as I can


« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2009, 05:40:52 PM »

Lauriel, just an FYI that crit is important to many builds and classes.  For Holy priests it = free casts, instant casts and 25% armor bonus to those healed.

I wish WWS would implement group composition again so we could clearly review the impact.  It was there briefly via an addon and a beta upload client.

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Ogun
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« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2009, 06:12:37 PM »

A few thoughts on the subject (I've been playing a raiding HaT rogue for a few months now):
-  I gave up on HaT recently, because it is simply too dependent on group comp.  If group comp is average, dps is poor.  If group comp is good, dps is good, but not great.  DPS is almost always poor against trash (including boss trash).  But to each their own.  It is probably better suited to 25 man runs where crit can be optimized a bit (and I usually ran 10 man Naxx)
-  Optimally, HaT rogues should only be a group with feral druids, hunters (<= best class), HaT Rogues (although that 'bug' may have been fixed).  Mages are ok, but not quite as good.  Most other classes are varying degrees of tragic.  In particular, don't do something like stick a HaT rogue, boomkin, and holy priest together.  Yes, the HaT rogue & holy priest both benefit a lot from the aura.  But the priests lack of crit by far outweigh the gain from the aura in terms of HaT dps.  The HaT rogue would be much better served by replacing the doomkin and priest with any of the above optimal classes.
-  It's important to note that it's not the percentage of crits that a players has, but the total number of crits.  Fire mages may crit a lot as a percentage, but their relatively slow cast times means that they don't have a high number of crits (relative to a hunter critting the same percent).
-  I don't have hard evidence, but I think HaT has been nurfed since the early days (or perhaps various HaT bugs were 'fixed'.  Depends on your perspective).  I was appalled the other day when I found myself needing to build combo points against Lotheb (and in fact, that was the last straw for me).
-  In a perfect world, I still think that HaT offers the best theoretical dps.  But that perfect world is rarely there.
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