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Author Topic: Does Blizzard build excitement?  (Read 1277 times)
Jaxartes
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« on: October 06, 2008, 08:02:04 AM »

I was curious as to how excited people were about the upcoming expansion.

Me, I was very excited when BC came out.  I made a point of clearing every quest I could before moving on to a new zone.  I hit 70 while running Blade's Edge Mountains.  I only had the wildhammer flight point to go get my griffin mount because I'd been running past there every three days when my shadowcloth timer was up.  all of Netherstorm and Shadowmoon Valley was done at 80.  I had a blast.  And I loved that tailoring could be used to make genuinely raid-worthy gear.  I'm guessing other professions were equally happy.

Now...LK.  It looks really pretty.  It really does.  They are taking the imagery back to classic WoW, with the germanic architecture and undead.  I'm sure there's some nice twists in there, and hopefully nothing as annoying as the 'Oomoomoomoom" noise those manaforges in Netherstorm make.  Used to drive me crazy when I was farming signets.

They've changed up instances, given 10 and 25-person options.  They've made the bosses a LOT more quirky, from what  I've seen in videos. 

So why am I not so excited this time around?  It looks fun, but I'm not seeing myself fullly nose-diving into it the way I did with BC. 

I suspect part of it is pre-release malaise.  There's really nothing happening online now.  Money is partially irrellevant, since we'll prolly make all we need leveling.  Badges, well who knows.  Will there be new badge gear?  Honor, they are jacking up the cost of l80 gear to bleed out the stored honor people have.

I'm also wondering if they've made classes too generic.  We now have 4 tanking classes, and they've all been given AoE tanking ability.  Tanking skill levels are down.  With only a few quirks there seems to be very little difference in a raid between a mage or a warlock or a boomkin.  I hope they haven't gone too far, or we'll all just be wishing we'd leveled druids  Wink

I realize this is prolly mostly me, feeling that pre-release mailaise.  so I'm curious, what is everyone else thining right now?
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Vandred
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« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2008, 08:18:46 AM »

My pre-release malaise is just making me wait for WotLK...I am ridiculously excited about it.

Your point about the homogenization of the classes is well-taken, however. I am not especially thrilled with it either, but their reasoning is somewhat sound.

It's actually rather similar to the reason they gave Shamans to the Alliance and Paladins to the Horde...it allows them greater freedom to design content so that any group can beat it. Take Illidan for example. Did you bring a Warrior or a Paladin tank? If the answer was "no", you literally cannot do the fight. It's just not possible. Shear will eat your rawrbeartank in about 3 seconds. Another example is Mt. Hyjal. Did you bring a Tankadin? If you didn't, the trash just increased exponentially in difficulty, and jacked up the number of tanks required as well. I'm sure there are more examples I'm missing, but those two prove my point well enough, I think.

Now, I grant, in so doing these changes they hosed a lot of classes. Poor Shadow Priests are basically worthless at the moment on Test, because they don't do enough damage, and their mana battery functionality is virtually gone. Arms and Fury Warriors are also currently kind of shafted because Titan's Grip has too stiff a penalty, and Bladestorm just isn't a good PvE ability. Supposedly, they are working on these things, but we'll see if they get fixed by the time 3.0 comes out, or even by the time WotLK comes out.

Really, I am utterly stoked about WotLK (In no small part, I confess, because my primary class is seeing SUBSTANTIAL improvements), but I am also stoked because of Death Knights...not because of their lore or their abilities, though some of those things are very cool, but because I can finally make an alt and not have to grind it through the early levels that I find boring as sin. Incidentally, Death Knights finish their little mini-zone right at the point where they are ready to do my favorite quest of all time, Of Love And Family, which I am also excited about, as doing that quest with a DK just reeks of delicious irony.

So, my final answer: I cannot wait for WotLK to come out.
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« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2008, 09:06:01 AM »

I'm also wondering if they've made classes too generic.  We now have 4 tanking classes, and they've all been given AoE tanking ability.  Tanking skill levels are down.  With only a few quirks there seems to be very little difference in a raid between a mage or a warlock or a boomkin.  I hope they haven't gone too far, or we'll all just be wishing we'd leveled druids  Wink

This is a common sentiment on the forums these days, and I have to say, I very wholeheartedly disagree with it. The problem is, right now, "serious guilds" don't take hybrid DPS specs because they pay a price in DPS for their ability to choose to tank or heal. This situation is completely unfair to the hybrids, though, who are being held back from doing one of their roles (although, to be fair, being recognized as good tanks and healers is a step up from pre-BC, when the common attitude was "shut up and heal me" towards hybrids). This shift toward parity makes the game far more fair for all.

"But Aniral," I hear you say, "that just makes pure DPS classes worthless!" Again, I disagree. No one is suggesting that hybrids be better at DPS than pure DPS classes, after all. They are merely at the same level. Pure DPS classes are not devalued in the slightest, because they are bringing the same thing to the table. The much-touted hybrid versatility is nice in theory, but not as powerful as people make it out to be. After all, Baz isn't going to just kick Vandred from a raid one day, and start tanking just for kicks (well, I guess he technically could, but then he would have to listen to Eleth's soothing angry voice after he crumples like a tin can in his DPS gear).

Players are saying that they have no reason to play $class, rather than druid/pally, any more, but that simply isn't true. You have the same reason you always did: you like the way the class plays. Why would I want to play a boomkin? I'm a mage, always have been a mage, and always will be a mage. The class feels right to me, and is really fun to play. Going to another class because I can theoretically heal or tank if I want would just be silly, I'd be gimping my enjoyment for a slight gain in flexibility.

Anyways, that opinion aside, I have to say yes, I am very excited for WotLK. Beta is just phenomenal, the game is the best it's ever been. I can't wait to hit up the stuff I'm unable to hit up now (mostly raids). Only a month left!
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Vandred
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« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2008, 10:25:37 AM »


"But Aniral," I hear you say, "that just makes pure DPS classes worthless!" Again, I disagree. No one is suggesting that hybrids be better at DPS than pure DPS classes, after all. They are merely at the same level. Pure DPS classes are not devalued in the slightest, because they are bringing the same thing to the table. The much-touted hybrid versatility is nice in theory, but not as powerful as people make it out to be. After all, Baz isn't going to just kick Vandred from a raid one day, and start tanking just for kicks (well, I guess he technically could, but then he would have to listen to Eleth's soothing angry voice after he crumples like a tin can in his DPS gear).



I am afraid I have to disagree here, because there is an element missing from your logic. Yes, Bazerk cannot just suddenly decide to kick me a from a raid group and pick up tanking in his DPS gear. He CAN, however, go respec, slap on the tanking gear that he's horded (as all hybrid classes horde gear for their offspecs), return and suddenly be as good a tank as he has the skill to be. Takes him about 5 minutes. If his DPS is equal to a pure DPS class's, then when it comes to raid flexibility, the hybrid wins. It's often pointed out that such things wouldn't matter in a guild like KOR, but in more hardcore raiding environments it's more important. The buffing of hybrids to equal mainline DPS classes just makes those mainline DPS classes less worthwhile.

Because buffs are now more or less universal across many classes, there is less incentive to bring certain classes. Take, for example, a Fury Warrior vs. a Feral Druid. Both have the same 5% crit buff to melee and ranged, but the Druid's is passive, while the Warrior's requires rage and a GCD to maintain. Well, in theory that would make them equally effective, except that the Druid has two other options for a raid job, where the Warrior only has one other. Both classes need to respec (though Feral may not even need to respec between tank and DPS), and have to have appropriate gear, but the Druid can become a healer OR a tank as necessary, the Warrior can only become a tank. Yes, the enjoyment factor is important, but raid leaders in more hardcore raiding environments probably rank that pretty low on the totem pole when determining raid composition. If I, as a hardcore raid leader, am choosing between a class that can tank or DPS, and a class that can tank, DPS, or heal, all with equal efficacy, I would simply be a fool to choose the first option rather than the second. Why settle for 2/3 when you can have 3/3 at no extra cost?
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« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2008, 03:15:48 PM »

I haven't read very much at all about the new expansion (I like some surprises), but I can't help but hear some things.

Overall, I am excited to see the new expansion, but much less excited than when BC came out.

Why am I excited? For the same reason we all are... New places to explore, the change in pace from mostly raiding/farming to leveling/5-mans, the improvements to the game, the many upgrades to gear as we work our way to 80 and beyond, ... To summarize, "change is good".

Why am I less excited than BC's release? BC was the first major release. This time around we know more what to expect. Remember how hard is was to do quests because EVERYONE and their brother was trying to do the same quest as you? Remember your ever-so-hard-earned purple tier gear being trumped by a green? Remember the endless faction/cash/profession grinds? To summarize... "much of the same ol' same ol'"

I also fear that Blizzard is going to break a lot of things. While some changes may make life better (prot tanks finally getting buffed, less dependencies on any one class/role, removing key requirements and redoing Nax, etc) I hear a lot of things that sound like a major set-back. To summarize, "change is bad too".

But as usual, Blizzard timed the release well. I was suffering from 3rd degree burn-out. Some new life needs to be breathed back into the game... even if it is pretty much the same old stuff, re-hashed a bit. I suspect the burn-out from the new expansion will come quicker than it did with BC. Blizzard will have to work harder to keep things fresh while risking losing people who don't like the changes.

As a Warlock, well, I think we're not getting as much of a bump as everyone else, and in many ways locks are getting shafted. Demonology got the biggest shaft, which is sad as that was one of the more unique aspects of the warlock. But alas there will be some new spells and talents that are definitely bumps.

I'm not excited about leveling my Priest (currently lvl 65) or my rogue (lvl 60) based on the feedback from the beta. I really don't want to join the hundreds of Death Knights (reminds me of the hundreds of Draenei Jewel-Crafting Shaman in BC). I'm also not excited about starting a level 1 just to play a fun class.

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Jaxartes
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« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2008, 08:10:18 PM »

Aniral, the whole point of the hybrids was that they could function in several roles, but not excel at any of them.  The trouble is, no hardcore raiding guilds would bring anything that wasn't tops in the field.  so, hybrids just ended up as healers.  the problem now is that they have buffed hybrids to the point where they are as powerful in each of their specialties as non-hybrid classes.  This makes them much more flexible and useful than the non-hybrids, and thus much more powerful.

I'm also, I think, sort of on the same page with Muk.  when BC came out it was like a while new game.  It was fabulous.  from what I've seen of LK it isn't a whole new game, just a few improvements and a lot of caving to the casual masses.  I get it from a revenue standpoint, but wonder if they arne't making some of this stuff too generic and easy to hold the interest of the majority of folks.  We'll see.

I --am-- looking forward to the expansion, by the way.  I want to see the new stuff and meander through the next ten levels.  But I really think they might have done better keeping the level at 70.  That grind from level 1 is getting awfully long, even with the level accelerators.
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Nyteflower
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« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2008, 02:58:37 AM »


from what I've seen of LK it isn't a whole new game, just a few improvements and a lot of caving to the casual masses.  I get it from a revenue standpoint, but wonder if they arne't making some of this stuff too generic and easy to hold the interest of the majority of folks.  We'll see.


Oh you guys!!! Seriously, who can say that they're NOT ready for the WoW Hello Kitty expansion??? Why are they making us wait?Huh? Tongue
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chemten
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« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2008, 06:46:21 AM »

being able to go into naxx in only a 10-man is very exciting.  especially when we will be able to kill loatheb without farming for hours on end just for attemps and kill gothik without praying.
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Vandred
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« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2008, 10:13:34 PM »

I am NOT looking forward to Heigan. I cannot explain why, but I utterly fail at that fight. I cannot for the life of me connect where all the dividing lines between safe zones are. ><

I've seen all the diagrams and what not, but it's like there's some lock on my brain preventing me from getting it right.

Or I'm retarded...I'm not ruling that out.
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chemten
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« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2008, 06:23:19 AM »

I am NOT looking forward to Heigan. I cannot explain why, but I utterly fail at that fight. I cannot for the life of me connect where all the dividing lines between safe zones are. ><

I've seen all the diagrams and what not, but it's like there's some lock on my brain preventing me from getting it right.

Or I'm retarded...I'm not ruling that out.

apparently you can heal through it, so if you make a mistake, it'll be A-ok.
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