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Author Topic: Bellazhan  (Read 2404 times)
Jaxartes
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« on: December 04, 2007, 08:35:32 AM »

Hey all,

Since there's been a bit of talk lately about alts and people wanting to improve the lot of their less-played toons, I'd like to propose a non-guild-sponsored Karazhan run where alts would be welcome. The run would be Monday at 7:30-8pm (if we can get the right people), and would run our normal time length.  As usual, people with scheduling issues will be accommodated as best possible.

Here's the tough stuff first.  Best you save yourself some reading if these things stop you wanting to go.

-This run is designed to help people with their gearing or badge-gathering and raiding skills.  As such it is open to mains and alts.
-It will be run exactly like a regular guild raid, except that I'm not as concerned about making everyone happy as the officers would be.  To that end, being picked for the run will have to do with the following:
--Alt or no, you need to have at least a sturdy set of greens and a couple AH blues to survive Kara.  If your alt isn't worth that investment for possible epics in return, we won't succeed.  If you show up in old T1 epics or a bunch of whale gear, that's telling me you don't care about the raid succeeding, and you won't get in.
--Ditto consumables and reasonable enchants and gems and things.  Come prepared like you would to a regular raid on a main.
--If we have plenty of people but really bad gear and preparedness I'll scrub the raid rather than go into Kara to just flail around and work up a repair bill.
--I'm not kidding.  We go to learn and team and succeed, or we don't go.  I want this to be fun for everyone, and that means everyone needs to really be on board, especially since this isn't our KoR "SWAT" team here.
--We'll be recording the stats.  What this means is that if you aren't buffing yourself you might get away with it the first week, but I'll know about it after, and you won't get re-invited.  It also means you'll be able to look at your performance afterward to look for ways to improve your alt.
--"Alt" is not a synonym for "lame."  Gear up as best you can, and bring as close to an A game as you can.  if it's an alt we understand you probably need to get some learning.  We all do.  I just ask that you really give it your best try.
--"Normal" guild prejudice will go to tanks and tanking gear for potential guild backup tanks.  Basically, if it's good for the guild, that's more important than it just being good for you.

Still there?  Okay, here's the good stuff:
-Mains still want to hit Kara because now they can get badges.  That's a big help.
-Mains don't need a ton of gear from Kara, especially from the earlier bosses.  More for the alts.
-Kara is a great place to pick up skill in a group environment.  That makes your alt a lot more effective in the long run.
-Earning Violet Eye rep gets you a hot ring, and a Violet Signet down the line.  Rep comes quickly in Kara.
-The trash drops in Kara rock.
-A full Kara clear is worth like 22 badges.  Just one month of running this run with moderate success could net you 50 badges.  More, if we get substantial assistance from "main" advisors.

Now, I'd like to ask for a little bit of help. 
-My GEM is acting up again.  Can someone post the raid for me?  Monday the 10th, 7:30pm log-on for an 8pm start?
-Tell people you know, to see if we can drum up some interest.
-If the officers could make the message of the day something to do with this, I'd appreciate it.
-Please tell anyone who asks to come and check the board for this post.  I'd really like to not disappoint too many people who think this is just an "alt" run that they can show up for with no prep.

I'm not trying to sound like too much of a hard-ass here.  My hope is that the run(s) will be popular, fun and profitable for everyone.  But we need to be clear here that for a lot of people alts aren't exactly an investment priority.  They tend to show up in equipment that won't meet the needs of the run, and tend to be unprepared.  I believe we can be very successful on alts for this fight, so long as we all treat the run like a real run, and not just some place to thrash around and maybe get an epic.
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Jaxartes
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« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2007, 08:41:57 AM »

Also, feel free to sign up here or send me a PM.  It'd help to get a feeling for attendance .
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Xakopane
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« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2007, 09:06:17 AM »

Jaxartes I do not think anything you've said here is beyond normal expectations and this sounds like a fun time! I'd be happy to be the GEM monkey if you're still having issues.

Agelaus/Xakopane
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Frosh
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« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2007, 09:11:17 AM »

Sounds great Jax.

In general, I won't be online on mondays until around 10 Server Time - but I AM pretty consistenly on at 10 server time;  don't hold a spot for me, but if you have 8 or 9 and don't mind a slightly later start, you can count me in.   (or if you need a sub or something)

That said, after next monday, I'll be available on Monday and this sounds like an excellent run Smiley
« Last Edit: December 04, 2007, 09:13:06 AM by Frosh » Logged

Jaxartes
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« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2007, 09:42:20 AM »

Xak, Eleth offered to post the raid, but thanks!

I'm guessing you want to come on Agelaus as a first choice?
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Xakopane
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« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2007, 11:25:41 AM »

Yes - Agelaus is my first choice. He is well-geared - has pieces from Kara, heroics, pvp, etc. I think he falls above the green/T1 line Wink

Agelaus/Xak
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Chaulmers
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« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2007, 11:51:41 AM »

is it guildies only?  Roll Eyes
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Jaxartes
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« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2007, 11:52:44 AM »

is it guildies only?  Roll Eyes

I'd prefer guildies only.  The purpose of the raid is to give our own folks a leg up.
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Jaxartes
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« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2007, 12:28:58 PM »

By the way, since we are probably talking about significant alt presence here, I'll just go out on a limb and remind everyone that you need to be attuned to get into Karazhan.
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« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2007, 12:54:26 PM »

If there comes a point at which further progress is impossible on only alts, will we be asking people to switch to mains to further the run and hit later bosses? A raid with only alts is unlikely to be able to go for Prince and Nightbane without a significant time commitment gearing up.
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Gelgornn
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« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2007, 01:05:18 PM »

If there comes a point at which further progress is impossible on only alts, will we be asking people to switch to mains to further the run and hit later bosses? A raid with only alts is unlikely to be able to go for Prince and Nightbane without a significant time commitment gearing up.

getting the gear is what the raid of alts if for, right?  kinda defeats the purpose the bring in mains, as the alts will miss out on that loot and still won't be able to kill the boss next time.
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Jaxartes
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« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2007, 01:29:03 PM »

Actually, I envision a potential backbone of 2-5 mains on a run.  Kara is THE place for badge drops, and a number of mains have mentioned that they still want gear from that place.  With a sort of "hybrid" approach we should be able to make decent progress, maybe through Curator (I know, I'm a hopeful son of a gun) within a couple weeks.  Most of our raiders know Kara.  They just don't have any idea how to function there on their alts.  Gear doesn't beat early Kara (though ZOMG it helps).  Teamwork does.  Later bosses like Aran, Illhoof, Prince and Nightbane are real gear checks, but I don't think that's so much of an issue through Opera, at least.

Any thoughts?
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Frosh
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« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2007, 01:47:19 PM »

Bringing in the occasional ringer will almost certainly be needed - we've had to do that as a guild.  (Pally for maiden, warlock for aran, illhoof, etc..)

While Gelgornn has a point that bringing in mains 'defeats the purpose of bringing the alts', leaving a boss go without dying seems like more of a waste than asking 1 - 4 people to bring their mains to make sure the boss dies.  I'll leave it to Jax (as it's his run) to determine when that would make sense Wink


As far as "when does gear matter?"  well, moroes certainly has a 'gearcheck component to it - if dps is low, garrote stacks up.  Opera doesn't have much of a gear check in it, neither does Maiden.  Curator (now that 'everyone' know how to target flares) shouldn't be an issue for gear (although i say 'everyone' as i mean 'every main' - healers turned dpsers and tanks turned healers may need to learn exactly why dps has a hard time on that fight..)

IMO, from my past experience with 'alt' runs, if you can get Atumen->Moroes->Maiden->Opera, you're doing pretty good and should have no issue until nightbane/prince.  However, if you can't get moroes, obviously, you're not going to get very far.  (or if you have a really hard time with moroes, good luck on REAL dps checks..)

should be exciting to learn/see Smiley
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Jaxartes
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« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2007, 02:54:40 PM »


While Gelgornn has a point that bringing in mains 'defeats the purpose of bringing the alts', leaving a boss go without dying seems like more of a waste than asking 1 - 4 people to bring their mains to make sure the boss dies.  I'll leave it to Jax (as it's his run) to determine when that would make sense Wink


Who sid this was an alt run?  Not me.  I said it was a run where alts are welcome, particularly alts that show some good investment/time put in.  Mains are also welcome.  I'm not worried about so much loot dropping that a lot of it gets wasted.  Figure a tank alt (maybe a druid and a warrior), a caster alt, maybe a shammie or hunter for chain drops, a dps alt and poof!  Most loot bases are covered, and that's just half the raid.

Meh.  It doesn't bear (grin) worrying over until we see how many and who shows up.
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Helwin
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« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2007, 03:18:02 PM »

I posted your run Jax on GEM.
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