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Author Topic: man oh man(uh)  (Read 3176 times)
Frosh
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« on: April 11, 2007, 08:06:35 AM »

(see what i did with the title there?  a little clever?  like "man or man" but it's "manuh" = "mana"...anyways)

So I gulp Super Mana Pots like they're cans of Mountain Dew on a warm taco bell sunday just before a nice 5man.  I love me some super mana pots - i love'em so much I have to go to the doggone auction house and spend 20g for a stack of 5.  I've had a couple guildies (ahmaj/eleth's alchy alts) make some pots for me in the past, but I'm curious about other consumables i should be using.

First of all, Fel Mana pot reduces healing by 25 but it promises 3200mana/24seconds - I could care less about the 25healing (less than 2% of my +healing, and if i just pop a trinket when I take the pot, i'm still way out ahead) and I'm afraid about "restores 1800 to 3000 mana" on the super mana pots;  I've never reallly paid attention, but I assume that means it's a random number between 1800 and 3000 - meaning my precious 4g super mana pot may actually only restore 1800 mana and at BEST less than the promised 3200 mana.  Almost all of our fights that i'm potting on last WELL over 25 seconds (usually somewhere along the lines of 4 - 6 minutes), so it looks like the fel mana pot is much more effecient way of mana.  I guess the questions are:  Am I wrong about any of the above and what's the price difference between the super mana and the fel mana?

I don't know anything about flasks, elixrs, etc -  so could an alchy out there give me a quick readers-digest version on what they are, what's available for me as a healadin, average prices, and when/when not to use them...?  I know there's an elixr of healign power (used it last night for the first time that i remember) and i also used brilliant wizard oil that sicro gave me back in MC....but i'm very ignorant when it comes to consumables.
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Avid
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« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2007, 08:22:55 AM »

I have the recipe to make the fel mana poton (potion master as well), however, I am very tapped for mats. Whats really cool about them is that they don't share a cooldown with other pots, but the dubuff does stack. I'll see what I can do mats wise and brew some up for ya.
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Coffeeworld
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« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2007, 09:39:45 AM »

elixir of healing power +50healing 1 hour costs 8.5ish/stack
adepts elixir +24spell dmg/healing +24 spell crit 12ish/stack
major mageblood 16man/5secs 1 hour 25ish/stack  (i would look into some of the lower quality items here, prob save some gold, i dont have recipes)
for double healer runs i would look at dreamless sleep potions (puts you into 12 sec sleep during which you gain mana and hp) 6or7g/stack

since flask effects persist for 2 hours, i wouldnt use one unless you were gonna be doing chain runs or expect to use more than 65g worth in pots during a run.  Flasks are great to maximize your abilities, but they are too expensive to be practical, they are more of a replacement item for other pots or buffs during important runs.  if you are looking to have flasks made, i highly recommend researching the material prices and trying to get them made cheaper than premade on AH.

flask of distilled wisdom - 2k mana for 2 hours   70g each    (30xdreamfoil 10xicecap 1xblack lotus 1xcrystal vial)  MATS = 55-60g
flask of mighty restoration  75mana/5secs for 2 hours   60-70g each      (20xdreaming glory 10xmana thistle 1xfel lotus 1ximbued vial)  MATS = 37g!!!!!!!!
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Coffeeworld
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« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2007, 09:41:30 AM »

double post


Flask of Mighty Restoration is a DISCOVERED alchemy thing.  discoveries are incredibly rare, and getting this one only moreso.  Probably very few people on the server can craft it, but even after a service charge mat price is awesome compared to AH prices
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Frosh
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« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2007, 09:58:11 AM »

Dreamless sleep sounds HOTT as a 'last resort' or like in bloodfurance on the 2nd boss - after doing 4 waves of 3-4pulls you don't get a chance to drink while the boss slowly walks out - that'd be ideal to 'sleep while he's walking out slowly. 

Do elixrs not persist through death?
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Rivs
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« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2007, 10:04:17 AM »

Unfortunately, elixirs do not persist, thus require tons of farming at this point.

I personally am not a big fan of dreamless sleep pots. They do not provide instant mana, and instead require a lot of foresight and timing. Also, they incapacitate you for the duration, so you can't toss any emergency heals. Lastly, the health component is not important at all, as I can fill my health bar with approximately 600 or so mana. The only time I worry about my health is when it spikes down, and dreamless sleep pots aren't very good for this.
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Frosh
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« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2007, 11:28:53 AM »

Does it share a cooldown with mana pots in general?  I'd be ok if my pots were on cooldown and i was oom to spend 12 seconds out of combat - i mean, i'm oom, i'm not going to be useful anyways Wink  It would certainly take coordination with other healers ("i'm going to be sleeping, keep heavy heals on <x>") but i think that's doable.
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Yenst
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« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2007, 11:46:01 AM »

  • Elixir of Healing Power ¬†+50 healing ¬†1 hour
  • Adepts Elixir ¬†+24 dmg/healing ¬†+24 spell crit
  • Mageblood ¬†16 mana/5 ¬†1 hour ¬† ¬†(the lesser version is 12 mana/5)
  • Flask of Distilled wisdom ¬†2000 mana ¬†2 hours   persists through death
  • Flask of Mighty Restoration ¬†75 mana/5  2 hours   persists through death
  • Brilliant Mana Oil ¬†+12 mana/5 ¬†+25 healing ¬†30 minutes, persists through death (There is an "upgraded" oil with 14 mana/5 and no +healing)
  • Golden Fishsticks ¬†+44 healing ¬†+20 spirit ¬†30 minutes ¬† (There is another food which provides + heal and mana/5, I don't recall the name)
  • Presently you can use all of the above in combination (except only one flask).  They are elixirs, flasks, food and a temporary weapon enchant (like a sharpening stone) and thus do not share cooldowns with anything else.

    Also worth noting are upcoming changes:

Quote
    Alchemy
  • Elixirs now stack in two categories, Battle (Offensive) and Guardian (Defensive) Elixirs. You can only have one of each type of Elixir up at a time. As a result Elixirs now stack with class abilities such as "Arcane Intellect."
  • Four new defensive elixirs have been added. Two are on trainers, one is in Halaa and one is in Cenarion Expedition.
  • "Flask of Petrification" can no longer be turned off during its duration, but it now will clear all threat from all monsters for the duration of the effect. Though monsters may reaquire you after the effect ends.
  • The cost to purchase Imbued Vials has been reduced.

Last comment, do not buy pots near raid time if possible, too many other people are doing so.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2007, 11:48:44 AM by Yenst » Logged

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Bynn
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« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2007, 01:43:15 PM »

I think there is still a lot of alchem info on the wiki Wink

Send me a note in game is you need something brewed up.

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Bynn there, done that.
Helwin
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« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2007, 03:42:36 PM »

i do have the recipe for elixir of major mageblood and Fel Mana potions, and as avid am a potion master.  The problem is getting the rarer mats... Nightmare vine i currently in surplus because of all the quests i did in Shadowmoon, but i spent 30 mins in Netherstorm before the Kara raids in order to brew some Super Mana Potions etc.  I only got 6 Netherbloom in that time.  Mana thistle on the other hand is even harder, i have only found it in areas that are only accesible by flying.  If you purchase the mats instead of the pots you can probably save more gold, especially if you have myself or another potion master brew your potions as we may proc extras, (Metek got 3 free Fel Mana Pots yesterday).  Unfortunately elixirs do not persist upon death, only those expensive flasks do that.  For the Major Dreemless Sleep potions, i do not find them incredibly useful, the next time i am oom i will consume one and let you know if they share the cooldown if no one else finds out by then Tongue  Wink
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« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2007, 04:02:32 PM »

For the Major Dreemless Sleep potions, i do not find them incredibly useful, the next time i am oom i will consume one and let you know if they share the cooldown if no one else finds out by then Tongue  Wink

You're an oomkin. That'll be what, in about 5 mins? Wink
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Metek
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« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2007, 10:09:58 AM »

Well. It looks like this is all going to change in the next patch anyway!

According to a blue forum post that has been copied and analyzed at, http://www.wowinsider.com/2007/04/11/more-on-alchemy-changes/, players will only be allowed to have 2 elixirs up at once, 1 "defensive" and 1 "offensive."

But MORE importantly,  "Flasks will work in this new system by taking up both the offensive and defensive elixir slots."

This is really going to cut down on consumable costs for the valued raider, although you won't be able to juice up quite as much  Wink
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Jaxartes
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« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2007, 12:58:35 PM »

This is diabolically brilliant.  They take what is supposed to be a measure to spare the expense loads of raiders and somewho manage to turn it into a nerf.

Hail Satan!   Cheesy
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Rivs
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« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2007, 01:24:08 PM »

I really don't see how it's a nerf. It's been balanced. Yes, characters are now significantly less powerful than they used to be. But it's only fair.

Farming to have at least two stacks of three different elixirs, two stacks of each potion, and a flask every night for raiding is just ridiculous. It really makes the game not fun. They are going to tune down future encounters so that they remain within the realms of possibility.

And what really gets on my nerves is that people are crying their eyes out on the WoW forums about wanting to change their alchemy mastery from elixirs now.

QQ more, I payed for 4 primal mights to get my mastery. And what do I get? I've gotten only two procs to date, and both times they were only an extra primal air. People are still going to be using elixirs, so they still will be in demand. People shouldn't complain that things are becoming fair now. After all, elixir masters can create elixirs whenever they want and stock up. Us transmuters are on a timer and only get one proc chance a day (at best).
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"Can you order me up some bread?"

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Frosh
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« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2007, 02:22:21 PM »

I guess i just laugh because blizzard is fixing a guild issue, not a game issue.

Guild leader says: "you want to raid, you have to come with <x> flasks."
Players say "but but but..."
Guild leader says: "no buts!  go do it!"

Blizzard then puts in this nerf and everyone goes "ZOMG thanks for the fix!"  when all that really had to happen was guild leaders saying "ok, just bring ONE flask..." THEN the complaint would have been "But they're too hard" which blizzard would then need to fix. 

in other words, the solution blizzard is putting in place is a GAME nerf when all that's needed was a GUILD nerf. 

Now, if they fix the encounter so you only need one flask, then it's a 'fix' - not just a nerf...
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